I somewhat agree with the column. It’s the title that’s a turn-off.

After all, there ARE still those who frown at any sign of initiative from a woman, and most women would like to weed out such men in a hurry. I.e., “calling” on the phone can be interpreted to mean the boorish behavior you described, but many would interpret it to mean proscribing even a dating tactic as subtle as “I’m going to the town hall tonight – there’s a meeting about the zoning issue and I thought you might want to know so you can hear it.”

Besides, as one man pointed out a year ago or so on this blog, men who keep pursuing women who may or may not be acting coy could find themselves in legal trouble – or, at least, branded as boors. So they NEED signs from a woman that she’s truly interested. In short, as Miss Manners said, “pushy tactics are self defeating. The trick to a relationship is learning to move just slightly more slowly than one’s partner.” Of course, she meant both sexes when she said that.

I’m not saying that the romantic role of men-as-pursuer shouldn’t be given a chance before a woman assumes that a man is shy and needs strong hints. Just that there are plenty of circumstances where a modest woman could easily lose a man she desires due to his misinterpretation of her message – such as when she’s the only woman in his neighborhood who isn’t throwing herself at him or even speaking to him before being spoken to.

After reading the column, I would like to say the following: Girls don’t call boys, girls do call BAD BOYS! You see, we now live in a “women prefer jerks” attraction society unfortunately. The reason why? Women are social workers by nature. They pursue men of questionable character to find his problems that she can correct, AND TAKE CREDIT FOR CORRECTING. You see, jerks are guaranteed EXCITEMENT, while women basically say two things to the so-called “nice Guy” 1.”Why are you still single(why don’t you have a girlfriend)?” and dismiss him with number 2.”You’ll find someone someday.” If he’s so great, why isn’t she interested? It’s because most nice guys are so self-sufficient, women think that she is not needed in his life. Also, women like to compete for a mans’ affection, and if she knows that no other woman is interested in him, then she’s not interested either. It all boils down to this: The guy on “The Bachelor” is not reall all that great, which is why women are so interested in him. If he were, he wouldn’t have been picked to be on the show anyway.I highly recommend reading the book, “Nice Guys Don’t Get Laid”, by Marcus Meleton, Jr.

Link, have you ever actually spoken with any women? Your information is so wildly false that it doesn’t look like you have.

I’m taken aback that you even watch that ridiculous show. Why do you watch, especially with your daughters? It is such a waste of time, and you’re right, it is degrading to women. So again, I ask, WHY do you watch it? By writing about the show, you’re promoting it and thus almost endorsing its premise. If no one watched it, it wouldn’t be on TV anymore — and good riddance. What is wrong with today’s females that they find this kind of crap is entertaining?

Hi Renee – I found it painful, but being somewhat familiar with the show I determined to watch the finale to mine it for something to write about. With my daughters – for them it was an object lesson! Okay, maybe that’s all a rationalization (let’s fact it,it’s a little like watch a train wreck, but there you go! – Thanks for writing.)
Betsy

Here’s one person who wouldn’t agree with Betsy:

http://thenononsenseman.mensnewsdaily.com/2009/03/08/chasing-pavlovian-sex-marc-h-rudov/

Last line: “Only mutual pursuit produces mutual respect.”

Granted, this is a man who resents ANY situation that might result in a man’s spending more money on a woman, long-term, than she does on him, but he makes good points.

There’s also a link to a Washington Post article by Tara Bahrampour about how women in the DC area are flatly refusing to date any unemployed man, even though there are obviously many unemployed men right now who are not slackers and could use some emotional support in their struggle to get a new job. The article is popping up elsewhere, too. However, I definitely feel that being a self-respecting adult – male or female – includes the right to weed out losers and to refuse to date them, as opposed to those who are simply down on their luck. Here’s what I said about it (comment 24):
http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=3418&cp=3#comments

Quote: “If it’s OK for a man to refuse to date a woman who doesn’t at least show PROOF of the ability to rescue herself (financially), what’s wrong with women doing the same?”

Dearest Betsy,

If you are judging “The Bachelor” as an exemplary relationship, that’s your first misguided assumption. It’s this breast hungry, chauvinistic society that has created shows like that which we Americans love to hate. I am very taken aback at your archaic view of relationships and courtship in this culture.

You stated, “historically it was up to a man to make his suit”, and historically women have not been able to vote, go to school or own land. Women have since evolved in their right to live freely and express themselves.

Why is it that if a man is pursuing a woman it is considered “manly” but a woman doing the same is “degrading” “pathetic” or “male hunting”? I’ll disregard your incendiary language and instead point out that there is a continuum for all behavior, and women can pursue just as subtly and tactfully as men can. Both sexes enjoy being desired, so why can’t a woman initiate or perpetuate conversation with a man who makes her happy? I do believe that healthy relationships can form through male pursuance, however that is not the only way.

It seems the motivation for this article (as I understand it: women getting the best that they deserve), is good-natured, however I just can’t understand how somebody could still possess such a chauvinistic attitude.

I’d like to try and understand your viewpoint, so a response would be greatly appreciated. I’ll even give your website a couple extra hits by checking in.

I’m very glad for your parents’ happiness, but hope your daughters, as they grow into adulthood, can open their minds to acting on what will make them happy, even if that means calling a boy.

Hi Andrea – thanks for writing and I’m sorry I didn’t couldn’t answer before. Yes, lots of things are historical, and historical wrongs. There is also a lot which is hardwired about us. I think the example I used in the piece says it all – wouldn’t you cringe to hear a woman talk about how she had to beg and plead with her husband to marry her? Wouldn’t you smile if that husband were the one to say that that’s what he had to do for her? Most people would. Look, I am as strong minded and independent as a woman comes. I’m raising for children on my own, three of them daughters whom I want to have face the world full of joy and without waiting for prince charming. A man who treats a woman, or women in general, without great honor and respect and as equals – and I’ve known some – are anathema to me. But even I agree that most women are built, have a desire,to allow a man to lead. It’s as simple and as complicated as that.

(That’s a whole column in itself but here’s my theory there: men are generally physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive than women. They can use that strength to protect a woman and children, or a society – the military, for instance – or they can use it to hurt those most vulnerable (they become criminals, they use that strength to hurt women etc.) I firmly believe that God designed women in such a way that we want men to lead and protect, and by desiring that good thing, we give them an outlet to use their strength – their testosterone – in a positive way.

So, then I think we desire that leadership in some way when it comes to our relationships. Personally, I figure if a fellow doesn’t have the guts or desire to pursue me, he’s not “good enough” for me (meaning he’s not “right” for me.) I just wouldn’t waste my time. But yes, I do return calls to boys!

Does that help?? Thanks for writing and have a great weekend.

Betsy

just wondering if i was a bad boy ?