I have a diamond of almost one caret and I have the man who gave it to me.

But it’s not the diamond that makes my marriage valid. Lots of women get married without the diamond – lots will never be able to afford it.

It’s not the diamond, or the marriage it signifies, that keeps the man with me. Plenty of married men go shopping for “a younger, more attractive rock climber.” The ring doesn’t stop them; their own children don’t keep it from happening. Commitment is a choice.

I say, forgo the diamond, spend the money on a honeymoon adventure that will fuel a lifetime of good memories.

That this commercial is an “attempt at social engineering” is something that you are reading into it. Nothing says that the two don’t get married, just that they made unconventional, and less materialistic decisions about what to do with their money.

Betsy: I read your column all the time. It is like yor mirror my same beliefs except you have an ability to write it. Thanks,

To GotTheRock:

I liked and agreed with everything you said – except for this:

“That this commercial is an ‘attempt at social engineering’ is something that you are reading into it. Nothing says that the two don’t get married, just that they made unconventional, and less materialistic decisions about what to do with their money.”

I hate to say it, but that’s grasping at straws. Unless it’s made clear that they ARE getting married someday, the viewer has no reason to believe what you said – after all, why not refer to forgoing something OTHER than an engagement ring, unless the message really IS that marriage is and should be optional for the average woman, even one who might want children?

I WILL add that the percentage of women under 50 or so who have never had children is about 20% – and growing – and while many didn’t choose that, more and more women ARE choosing the childfree lifestyle, so we should not assume that the woman in the ad is going to want children some day. Or that our own children will want them.

But in the meantime, when it comes to the argument that even most childfree women will want to get married someday, we still need to teach kids, gently, an inconvenient truth: “Sometimes it’s better to be alone than to wish you were.” Not just unmarried, ALONE.

Oh yes, forgot to say – most women WILL find themselves alone in their old age, simply because there won’t be enough men to go around. So, they’d better be prepared for it.

Not to mention that some of our daughters will be lesbians anyway.

It’s just a commercial, you are over thinking this.

Thanks for all the comments. I do not by the way think that this ad in and of itself is a big deal, nor is it attempting social engineering per se. (It’s attempting to get people to sign up with Citi.) Rather, it is reflective of a culture in which that attempt at remaking women in the image of men, and vice versa for that matter, is well under way. Thanks for chiming in!

I don’t see how being independent, enjoy the outdoors and physical activity are making a woman into a man. Female climbers are people just doing something that they love and they are doing it for themselves.

You seem to think that a woman needs to be married and make babies to be happy in life. Otherwise they are “depicting a “reality” that isn’t real at all”.
I’m glad that I have my reality instead of yours where I don’t have to rely on others to define me.

Betsy,

I just wanted to thank you for finding many ways to insult my lifestyle. Just because it is a reality that you can’t fathom, does not mean it doesn’t exist.

Let’s start with marriage and babies. Last I checked you didn’t need a diamond ring to get married. You make the assumption that just because she forgoes the diamond ring that she doesn’t want to get married. I don’t think that it is implied at all, just that there are other ways she’d prefer to have that money spent.

There is nothing to say she plans on having kids either. There are 7 billion people on this planet; 37 million have been born this year, while only 15 million have died. The population is growing at more than twice the rate that people are dying. Our planet will not be able to sustain this kind of growth forever. I don’t think that if someone chooses a lifestyle without kids that they should be criticized for doing so, when we are in no danger of running out of people any time soon. On top of that, you know nothing about this couple other than the fact that they like to rock climb. If they were to have kids, he could be a perfectly caring and supportive father married or not. Or she may have the means and support to raise a happy healthy child on her own. Families with a married mom and dad are becoming the minority, and I would guess more often than not that kids born into these “nontraditional” families come out just fine, just as not all children born to “traditional” families grow up without issues.

Finally, just because a relationship doesn’t look like yours doesn’t mean that it lacks validity or that it or its participants are “pathetic”. There is no perfect relationship, and there is no circumstance that is going to prevent someone who wants to/is prone to cheat from cheating or leaving for a younger partner. If anything, many of the rock climbing relationships I know, including my own are incredibly strong relationships. For one, we spend an amazing amount of time together. We share a passion for something that we devote the majority of our free time to, and we do it together. On top of that you have to trust your partner completely. Your life is frequently in their hands. You have to trust and depend on them to keep you safe. And when you get to the top, and everywhere in between really, you get to share a perspective of the world that not a lot of people get to see.

I have a lot of things I would like to do in my life. Marriage and children are not high on the list. If I were to get married, I don’t want a diamond ring or a big wedding, I’d rather spend that money traveling and gaining new experiences with my partner. It is my choice to live this way, and just because it does not match your schema of the way things should be does not mean that it is wrong or irrelevant. Don’t put women in a box and insult and criticize those that do not fit. Last I checked we are not the borg. We don’t all think and make decisions as a unit. Diversity is what makes this world such a wonderful and unique place. I only hope that one day you are able to accept and see the beauty in it.

Best Regards,
A Girl that Loves to Climb

Betsy – I think you have a very narrow definition of what a woman is, and I find that unfortunate. As another female climber, I don’t see this activity as simply “remaking” myself in the image of men. I have my own thoughts, desires, and hobbies, one of which is climbing. And, quite frankly, it is the experiences you take with you, not the materialistic waste like a diamond ring.

Do you know who the two are climbing and where. Because I do I recognize Katie Brown from a video I watched back in 2000 climbing a really tough climb when she was 12 or 13 years old as well as being a clothing buyer at the Outdoor Retailer that’s held in Salt Lake, UT. Check out the Masters of Stone series you’ll see plenty of the strongest women and girls climbing, and explaining why they love it. The most recent girl that was hired on was Sasha DiGiulian, who at 18 climbed a grade of climbing (5.14d, and the highest every recorded grade is 5.15a) that hadn’t been climbed by a woman. And that in itself is a huge accomplishment. Here’s the link to the video http://vimeo.com/34339718

The guy is Alex Honnold who was just featured in one of the latest issues of Climbing Magazine. Women who participate in the sport of Rock climbing, rather be out in the woods, dirty, backpacking, and scaling vertical walls that challenge them and make them feel alive. I personally am a rock climber and have been since 2001, ever since I watch that first climbing movie Masters of Stone V (5), which I also believe that the spire they climb in the commercial is also in the mentioned video, and it’s climbed by a guy who is BLIND!

Climbers have a different take on life and that bleeds over into what is always viewed in a traditional manner. I personally wouldn’t spend loads of money on a ring, and sides, if you pause the video during the commercial, you can tell by the background that Katie is in an Outdoor Supply Store, something like REI. Many climbers don’t even wear rings anyway, because they almost always have their hands shoved into cracks, dirty, or they are out in the wilderness.

I think it’s awesome that my choice sport, which makes me feel empowered, strong and delicate is being highlighted. But having people cut it down, and compare it to challenging whatever, is disappointing and frustrating.

Are you serious? Not all women want to get married and the whole “marriage mandate” really pisses me off. But, it just so happens that I did want to get married and have kids. And I did get married in December of 2010 and I’m currently pregnant and expecting my first baby any day now! Of course, I’m not in my 20s, I’m currently 32 which apparently is too old for you since you seem so upset at the thought that most women who are having children in their 20s are single. But I digress.

I am also a rock climber. In fact, I’ve climbed the very route that was in the citibank commercial. It’s called Fisher’s Tower and I climbed in at almost exactly this time last year on a week long trip to Indian Creek. And I LOVED that commercial because that’s exactly how I feel about climbing. I hate shopping unless it’s at REI. I consider myself a feminist. I don’t want a man to take care of me. I do want a man to be my life partner. And that’s exactly what I found. But I don’t think that’s what every woman wants. I also don’t think that being a strong independent woman makes it harder to find a man. Not every man wants to be the dominant one in a relationship where he “takes care of his women.”

I think your article about the citibank commercial couldn’t be more wrong. That commercial was one of the only ones I’ve seen that I could relate to and that represented MY reality. I think there are more of us out there than you think!

Your article listed the climbing lifestyle/culture as pathetic.

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion – but as a climber married to her best friend and climbing partner I think you are the pathetic one lacking a sense of adventure.

I was a married woman when I had my first child in my 20′s, after being with my then-husband for a year. A year later he left me for “a younger, more attractive rock climber” (who is actually neither younger than me nor a rock climber, but I digress). Spending thousands on a diamond ring does nothing to keep two people together in a marriage. Please don’t fool your readers into thinking it does. We need more people like the couple in this citibank commercial, who focus on being together and doing things they both love, because that is what keeps a relationship strong, married or not.

I can only assume that Betsey lives in a large city away from the west where rock climbing and other outdoor sports are very common. Here in conservative Utah where the commercial was shot, you can’t keep the girls off the landscape. They hike, ski, climb and do all sorts of things, it doesn’t stop them from marrying, nor does anyone in western states consider them manly for enjoying outdoor sports.

You are narrow minded and sexist.

You must be pretty bored to dream up that response to a commercial.

I am sorry the women of today don’t fit your model of barefoot and pregnant.

Good job pigeon holing your gender.

Actually most of the women i know don’t want what you claim women want. that is an old fashioned belief.

And you want to know what keeps you warm at night. Your partner, and the memories of the amazing moments you had together. NOT A DIAMOND.

What better represents commitment to a person: giving them a hunk of metal born out of suffering, business and forced societal gender constraints, or trusting them with your life every time you tie in to a rope?

Your article reminded me how lucky I am to have people in my life who have presence of mind and perspective. The sort of depraved, religiously endorsed sexist vitriol you spew makes me far more nauseous than hanging off the side of a cliff.

I’m glad you think my lifestyle is pathetic, because you’ll never show up at a crag and ruin climbing for me; the most you can mess up is an afternoon where I accidentally stumble on (and mysteriously have the fortitude to endure) your sexist drivel.

Enjoy your lonely diamond-studded future.

Enjoying the outdoors isn’t remaking your self in the image of a man. I love to climb and But I’m not masculine.
If you do one thing slightly unconventional( such as a Minority sport ) why would that mean you will choose an unconventional life.
I love being a woman, in the modern age Free to follow my heart weather that is in the mountains, marriage or both.

Betsy,

Since when does climbing (or any other outdoor adventure sport with our mates) compel the “remaking” of a woman into the “image” of a man and vice versa? Just curious.

In the end, you will see that your idea of materialism will be a cold and lonely road.

Good luck cuddling with your type of “rocks”, but certainly, we prefer ours.

I think you simplyread the ad wrong. Instead of wearing a rock to celebrate her engagement she chose to climb one with the man she’s going to marry, creating a great memory they can both share.

Not every woman that gets engaged wants a diamond ring,some have other rocks in mind.

For the record, many “real women” think like this, and aspire to and achieve exactly the lifestyle depicted in the commercial. Perhaps many more than think like you, which is why you are so very threatened by us. I, a happily unmarried but partnered professional woman and rock climber, do not find you threatening. Go ahead and get married and have a family and have no identity and interests of your own. Feel free. No one is stopping you from having your dream, if that’s really all you aspire to. Knock yourself out. But if you’re so sure that your path is right for you, then I’m not sure why you’re so bothered by the existence of alternative forms of womanhood, relationships, or lifestyles.

Good luck to you.

Wow- what a rant- as a married, 50 yo CLIMBER (and many other outdoor extreme activities)with kids…did i add feminist- i think it is sad that this “add” has been targeted to try & buttonhole women into a very traditional 1960′s model. Women want, and deserve equality, and the right to make their own choices- WHATEVER they are. I have taught my daughters that- you need to GO CLIMBING!

Huh…when I saw that commercial, I thought to myself, “Finally – a media depiction of a woman like me!” And I don’t even climb (more of a camping, hiking, single-track riding, wakeboarding woman myself). But I don’t pine over accessories or jewelry, either. It’s more common in the media for me to be subjected to the fashion buying and bling wearing woman, so it was affirming for me to see a woman that represents something more closely resembling who I have always been (rather than who you assume society is now telling me to be). I’d take a shopping spree to an outdoor store and a trip to the backcountry any day over an expensive ring and designer duds – all with my husband of 14 years and my kindergartner by my side.

“Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity.”

Hi friends – thanks for the comments, but I think you might be missing my point. Yes, this is just one add. But, it reflects a culture in which we glorify the idea that strong women don’t need men, and in fact they might be better off without them. Any doubts? I can’t think of a situation comedy centered around a marriage in recent decades that doesn’t feature an idiotic husband being told what to do by his oh so capable wife. BTW? He’s stupid around his children too. And just consider a situation in the popular culture in which a young woman might say, “more than anything I want to be a wife and mom, and that’s much more important to me than any professional life.” Magazine, TV show, college campus, in my local public school the response would be – and you all know it – “honey, are you kidding me? That’s no real choice.” THAT is what I’m talking about here. I’m not sure how we got to a point that all choices are fine for women – unless she chooses to be a traditional one. And by the way? I say all this as a professionally very successful, single mom to four kids (24/7!) woman. Again all, thanks for chiming in!

Betsy, that makes no sense at all!! In the ad, her supportive boyfriend goes with her on the trip she plans and supports her and belays her to the top of the climb of her choice! Her not wanting a ring isn’t her saying she doesn’t need a man. It seems to me she’s in a relationship with a very supportive man!

If I ever have a daughter who tells me that she wants to be a wife and mother more than anything, I’ll tell her that those are very admiral goals. But being a wife and mother doesn’t mean you have to give up yourself or any other dreams and goals! I will encourage my children of both genders to pursue whatever goals they want and not to settle. I love my husband and I can’t wait to have children with him (currently 39 weeks pregnant!). And I can’t wait to take our kids on all kinds of rock climbing adventures! I hope my son grows up to be a loving husband and father if that’s what he wants. I also hope he finds a fulfilling career and pursues any other passions with a wife who is as supportive of his life goals as he will be of hers!

From The Huffington Post referring to this add and one other, by Honda, celebrating single women:

If the 2010 data showed that single women are working and earning more, the recent marriage data showed how many single women there are — and that their numbers are likely to multiply in coming years.

The creators of the Citibank and CRV commercials seem to have come to that second conclusion even before the recent marriage data came out. The new commercials sell women the cars and financial products they can now afford by presenting those big ticket items as tools for celebrating their independence rather than attracting a husband.” The full link is below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/single-women-citibank-honda_n_1224780.html

OK, I finally saw the ad.

And it’s hard to say whether she’s rejecting a marriage proposal or just the ring. After all, it says “we talked about getting a diamond” not “he offered me a diamond.”

So maybe the question is, IS there a growing trend of young people who DO get married but who also reject the more expensive (and traditional) trappings of an engagement or a wedding in favor of a memorable wedding trip? I.e., young people who think outside the box when it comes to the tradition of materialism – and how best to start and build a marriage?

I hope so.

Lenona – I would love it if that were so. But if you click on the commentary above from people who know about the background of this add you will see it is very much intended celebrate her choice to be single – right now – and, at least for now, reject not the diamond but the marriage it represented. Again, check out the link above re: the add if you don’t believe me.

Besty – Who says that, and where? The only person I see making that inference from this ad is you. Have you not noticed that the majority of people commenting view this commercial as celebrating a great, adventure-filled relationship, not the depraved, single one you keep telling us it is?

I’m attaching a link here – I hope it comes through. This was written about the add, by a commentator who both likes it and followed the industry background that created it, and which concur with my take on it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/single-women-citibank-honda_n_1224780.html

Um, where’s the link? All I see is the link to the column – and no comments there.

OK, as a conservative, married woman I think I kinda see your point that young women may be trying too hard to achieve a role they don’t really want, but feel pressured by society to take on. And on the flip side, when a man’s inherent role as provider is threatened, it could lead him to seek less healthy ways of asserting his masculinity.
This recent article in Time addresses this cultural shift and has some though-provoking ideas about why it may not be entirely negative.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2109140,00.html

However, as a rock climber, I find it really sad that this is the sentiment non-climbers are taking from this commercial. I have to add myself to the long list of married climbers who have already commented on why and how much they enjoyed the commercial and the lifestyle it sums up quite beautifully in 30 seconds.

Hi friends – on this thread not all the comments – including the link I shared – came through in real time. Sorry, and hopefully you now see all the comments and the link I shared.

Betsy,

I am curious why would you would use a ridiculous, unintelligent sitcom to back up your point? Loss for support? Most of us don’t even watch television or buy into the “commercialism” that you are saying warrants a symbol of marriage, nice try. If The Huffington Post wants to be part of your authority for your point, I am sure at least one of their writers can speak/write for themselves on the subject, HERE.

You should pick your subjects wisely in the future.

Also, have you actually met many men that are climbers or alpinists? They come from all walks of life, socio-economics, they are our brothers, fathers, husbands, uncles and friends, lovers who happen to be incredibly smart, adventurous to say the least. PROBLEM SOLVERS… scientists, explorers, physicians, pancake flippers, mathematicians, leaders of our country, attorneys, retailers, students and the like. Our country was developed by these kind, the explorers and their WIVES tough enough to survive and settle. If you ask many of them, they might tell you that they do enjoy a female that can do what they can do and WILL do and even perhaps relish the day they meet one. So before you pigeon hole the lot of us, you might check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Way to grow your fan base, Betsy.

Sitcoms are a reflection of what our culture values, or at least what our adults do, and so they make the point nicely.

I think you, though, might be missing my point. This is not about rock climbers per se, but about how this ad reflects our culture. The Huffington Post had it right in presenting the backstory of what the ad was trying to convey.

Yes, I had sisters-in law who were serious rock climbers, level 5 rapid guides, and medal winning extreme skiiers (I’m only a serious skier.) I completely “get” that culture. Again, the ad though is not about the rock climbing culture, it’s a reflection of what our elite culture values, and doesn’t.