Comments on: Column – Oppression and the Legalizing of Same Sex Marriage

By: Betsy

Betsy — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:51:40 +0000

Thanks, Heather. As evidenced by the recent public outcry over Dan Cathy’s comments, I think that on this issue most of the name calling goes in one direction, and that’s a shame. I think we should respect each other’s rights to different opinions on this issue, which is exactly why I don’t think I should be forced to legally recognize gay marriage. At the same time, I should not, nor do I have any desire to, interfere with how homosexual couples want to define their relationship. It seems to me that’s real tolerance.

By: Heather

Heather — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:46:42 +0000

Personally, I don’t think one necessarily IS a bigot for opposing gay marriage, I just think they’re wrong and their fears are misplaced and they’re probably coming from a theological perspective that I don’t find logical. But name calling, unfortunately, is a part of our political discourse and conservatives certainly do their fair share of it, too.

By: Betsy Hart

Betsy Hart — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 02:39:06 +0000

Heather, thanks for trying, I genuinely appreciate the effort. But I think you are missing the point. Sure, one can, strictly speaking, support the legalization of gay marriage without supporting the legalization of group marriage. But in making such a distinction you make my point: that marriage ought to be regulated by the state and we are allowed to apply our moral sensibilities to how we think it ought to be regulated. You and I agree on that fundamental point. What we are disagreeing on, then, is not that moral sensibilities ought to come into play when we regulate marriage, but ONLY which sensibilities ought to prevail? In other words, the question still stands: Why am I according to the culture a “bigot” in opposing gay marriage but not a “bigot” in opposing group marriage? As opposed to, for instance, a nice person who opposes both, and whose opinion on opposing gay marriage should be as respected as your opinion on opposing group marriage?

By: Heather

Heather — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 02:08:44 +0000

Yes….one can support gay marriage without supporting group marriage. States have used a number of criteria to decide who is eligible to marry including age, sex, mental/ intellectual disability, consanguinity, quantity, species, etc. The reasons behind each of these criteria are different and each stands on its on, separate from the other criteria and changing any one of these criteria is an independent expansion of marriage. So group marriage would have to be argued on its own merits and would have significate “public policy” arguments to overcome that gay marriage does not, since there is historicle evidence that polygamy frequently involves coersion, abuse, welfare dependency (how many men can really support several families?)and lets not even try to imagine divorce (triple alimony and child support suits anyone???). If gay partnerships had been proven to result in significantly worse outcomes than hetero unions, I would oppose it; but the evidence just isn’t there. But I don’t have to fall for the “slippery slope” fallacy and believe I can’t draw the line somewhere else.

By: John

John — Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:58:51 +0000

Betsy, you’re not a bigot. You have no need to defend yourself, nor your stance on homosexuality/same sex marriage. Not to be hateful towards people-it’s OK to hate that which is sin. This is not being bigoted towards that which a person is, and cannot help being. This is sinful behavior, and no one has to accept it, nor be forced to like it. These groups are noisy about trying to normalize abominable behavior, and legislate laws protecting it. God is the author of marriage, and it is between one man and one woman. period. Make no mistake about it, God’s word is absolute on this, and there are consequences for engaging in abominable behavior. Like it or not, believe it or not, it is what it is, and what God says, will be. Let people squawk about it all they want, it doesn’t change anything. They are inviting God’s judgement upon themselves, and our nation. The Bible tells it all. I’ve read it-I know the outcome, and we win.

By: Betsy Hart

Betsy Hart — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 16:28:40 +0000

Okay, I will answer your question: I would love them unconditionally, of course. And I would still oppose the legalization of gay marriage. Now, again, please answer my challenge question: why am I a “bigot” for opposing the legalization of gay marriage, but not, presumably, a “bigot” for not opposing the legalization of group marriage?

Thank you.

By: John

John — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:43:27 +0000

If one of your children came out as gay, you
be forced to ask yourself that question.
Hope you’d be happy with the answer.

By: Betsy Hart

Betsy Hart — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:12:00 +0000

Please do not proceed to asking me questions until you have answered my challenge question: why am I a “bigot” for opposing legalizing gay marriage but presumably not a “bigot” for opposing legalizing group marriage (which yes, I also oppose.)

Oh and a point of clarification – married people typically “enjoy” a huge tax penalty.

Thanks for stopping by.

By: John

John — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 01:33:32 +0000

Oh Betsy! You Bible Thumpers slay me!
Let’s take religion out of the equasion.
There is a thing called separation of church and state! Others may, but I am not looking for approval from God, You, or your Church. Besides there are churches that are accepting of gay unions. I just want the legal right to marry someone of the same sex if I so choose to make that commitment. I’m even willing to extend that to you Hetros, because you know..since you think we made a choice to be this way, you would have the same opportunity in case for whatever reason ( jilted by too many men)you DECIDE to go Lesbo!!
So..you are a selective bigot and don’t see anything wrong with group marriages.
Obviously you are perceiving gay people as having an affliction, in that case it would be the same as not wanting mentally challenged people, or disfigured people from marrying. You are a bigot because you discriminatre against a group of society that you don’t understand,and don’t want to acknowledge. You never will.
Because it is repulsive to you, you don’t want to hear about or think about it. There is not any point in arguing with a narrow minded person such as you.
How would you respond if you had a daughter, or son who after having the same roommate for years, and tired of fielding questions about when they would find a nice boy or girl and settle down they answered that they were gay? Would you disown them? Try to make them change? Think you did something wrong? Think they are mentally ill? Not want them to be themselves, but pretend to be your “normal” and live unfulfilling lives?
I’ve been in a committed monogomous relationship for 20 years. The company I work for provides benefits for my significant other. Yet I pay higher insurance cost, higher taxes, have less tax breaks because I am deemed as single.
How long did your marriage last?
One final question do you not have anyone in your family, a neighbor, a co-worker that you know or suspect is gay?
You must not, or your secretly damming them to hell.

By: Betsy Hart

Betsy Hart — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 02:35:23 +0000

John, am not going to delete your post, even with all its invectives, because I want to issue my challenge to you too and see if you will answer it: why am I a “bigot” for opposing gay marriage, but not group marriage?

Yes, tragically I am divorced and very much against my will. I completely agree with you, by the way, that heterosexuals have done more to undermine the sanctity of marriage than homosexuals ever good. Completely agreed and granted.

By also by the way, to compare the pursuit of the legalization of gay marriage to that of civil rights is really base and unjust. This is one reason most black churches and their leadership oppose it. (One surrounds a behavior, the other a skin color.) Moreover, gays and nongays have exactly the same rights under the law – to marry one willing adult person of the opposite sex at a time. Strictly speaking, current law literally does not discriminate at all.

Please answer my challenge question with intellectual honestly. I look forward to it. Thank you.